How to Change the World
Fortune has a very interesting interview with Google co-founder Larry Page. He hits on a lot of topics that are frequently discussed here, and some that aren’t often discussed, but that I have spent a lot of time thinking about (e.g., geothermal). Here is a link to the interview:
Larry Page on how to change the world
And some energy-specific excerpts:
Do you have other examples where innovative leadership could move the needle?
I think there are a lot of areas. You can be a bit of a detective and ask, What are the industries where things haven’t changed much in 50 years? We’ve been looking a little at geothermal power. And you start thinking about it, and you say, Well, a couple of miles under this spot or almost any other place in the world, it’s pretty darn hot. How hard should it be to dig a really deep hole? We’ve been drilling for a long time, mostly for oil - and oil’s expensive. If you want to move heat around, you need bigger holes. The technology just hasn’t been developed for extracting heat. I imagine there’s pretty good odds that’s possible.
Solar thermal’s another area we’ve been working on; the numbers there are just astounding. In Southern California or Nevada, on a day with an average amount of sun, you can generate 800 megawatts on one square mile. And 800 megawatts is actually a lot. A nuclear plant is about 2,000 megawatts.
The amount of land that’s required to power the entire U.S. with electricity is something like 100 miles by 100 miles [RR comment: That's around what I have come up with whenever I tried to calculate it. Maybe that's where he got it, since I often get hits from Google in Mountain View.
] So you say, “What do I need to do to generate that power?” You could buy solar cells. The problem is, at today’s solar prices you’d need trillions of dollars to generate all the electricity in the U.S. Then you say, “Well, how much do mirrors cost?” And it turns out you can buy pieces of glass and a mirror and you can cover those areas for not that much money. Somehow the world is not doing a good job of making this stuff available. As a society, on the larger questions we have, we’re not making reasonable progress.
And it looks like we are on the same page - no pun intended - regarding the solution to our energy problems:
So you think that geothermal and solar thermal could solve our energy problems?
Yeah, probably either one could generate all the energy we need. There’s no discipline to actually do this stuff, and you can also see this vested interest, risk-averse behavior, plus a lack of creativity. It sort of conspires. It’s also a timeliness thing; everyone said Sam Walton was crazy to build big stores in small towns. Almost everyone who has had an idea that’s somewhat revolutionary or wildly successful was first told they’re insane.
He also comments on who needs to be working on these changes:
Whose obligation is it to make this kind of change happen? Is it Google’s? The government’s? Stanford’s? Kleiner Perkins’?
I think it’s everybody who cares about making progress in the world. Let’s say there are 10,000 people working on these things. If we make that 100,000, we’ll probably get 10 times the progress.
And then you compare it with the number of engineers at Exxon and Chevron and ConocoPhillips who are trying to squeeze the last drop of oil out of somewhere, and all the science brainpower that’s going to that. It’s totally disproportionate to the return that they could get elsewhere.
What kind of background do you think is required to push these kinds of changes?
I think you need an engineering education where you can evaluate the alternatives. For example, are fuel cells a reasonable way to go or not? For that, you need a pretty general engineering and scientific education, which is not traditionally what happens. That’s not how I was trained. I was trained as a computer engineer. So I understand how to build computers, how to make software. I’ve learned on my own a lot of other things. If you look at the people who have high impact, they have pretty general knowledge. They don’t have a really narrowly focused education.
A Bright Story from the Solar Sector
It’s no secret that I think the best hope we have for transitioning to a post-petroleum economy is through solar power. I am optimistic that the thin film solar crowd - led by companies like First Solar and Nanosolar - will be able to deliver cost-effective solar power to the masses. I have also lately been looking at the possibility of a solar hot water heater, as I think these will be very good investments if energy prices continue to rise - especially given that there is a tax credit on these systems through 2008.
USA Today just published a new story that suggests that one solar firm (not a thin-film producer) will be able to deliver solar power for 7 cents a kilowatt hour by mid-2009:
Start-up: Affordable solar power possible in a year
I always take these claims with a grain of salt. I am hopeful, but also recognize that the majority of these sorts of promises generally fail to materialize. Nevertheless, it sounds promising:
SUNRGI’s “concentrated photovoltaic” system relies on lenses to magnify sunlight 2,000 times, letting it produce as much electricity as standard panels with a far smaller system. Craig Goodman, head of the National Energy Marketers Association, is expected to announce the breakthrough Tuesday.
Under its plans, which experts call promising but highly ambitious, SUNRGI would initially target utilities and large industrial and commercial customers. The company — founded by veterans of computer, digital design, aerospace and solar industries — would market to homes within three years.
Executives of the year-old company say they’ll start producing solar panels by mid-2009 that will generate electricity for about 7 cents a kilowatt hour, including installation. That’s roughly the price of cheap coal-fired electricity. “We’re bringing the cost of solar electricity down to be competitive with” fossil fuels, says Bob Block, a co-founder of SUNRGI.
Of course there are still barriers to transitioning to a solar economy. We need energy storage solutions, better batteries, and the price needs to continue to come down. But as I argued before, the future still looks to me to be solar.
Book Review: World Made by Hand
When I read James Howard Kunstler’s (JHK) book The Long Emergency, it had a profound impact on me. I had been aware for many years that “running out of oil” was a serious matter. After all, I mentioned the challenge of peak oil in my graduate thesis in 1995. But my focus was more on finding a source that could replace oil as it ran out. Reading The Long Emergency was the first time it really hit me that I was missing a lot of key pieces of the picture.
The book’s impact wasn’t because I thought his vision of the future was necessarily correct, but it made me think about possibilities. It caused me to look at the suburbs in a new light, and to really appreciate how vulnerable the U.S. is to oil shocks. It made me realize that problems will start to crop up – not when we run out of oil – but simply when supplies can’t meet demand. In the U.S., we built a society based on cheap oil, in which one can live 40 miles from work and drive a gas guzzler to and from work each day. As I read his book, it really sank in that this model was likely to come to an end sooner rather than later. And just as soon as I finished reading it, I got a copy of Matt Simmons’ Twilight in the Desert and read it. Those two books helped me decide that I needed to start trying to educate people about energy issues.
In JHK’s latest book – World Made by Hand – he shares his vision of life after oil. It’s a far cry from the future I imagined as a child; a future in which man was conquering the galaxy and we were all flying around like the Jetsons. The future JHK evokes resembles the Wild West of 150 years ago – except with a few modern touches surviving.
The book is set in upstate New York (JHK’s home state) in the fictional town of Union Grove. In this world, life is very hard. There are no cars, electricity is rarely on, wars have wiped out major U.S. cities (Washington D.C. was wiped out on my birthday, 12/21), religion has made a resurgence, warlords carve out territory, and lawlessness is rampant. But communities are much tighter, the food is healthier, neighbors lend a helping hand, and people have to be a lot more self sufficient. I believe these latter aspects of the future world represents the future that JHK would like to see.
As with his previous book, this one caused me to think about possibilities I had not previously considered. I spent a lot of my time pausing to evaluate whether I felt like a particular scenario was likely. I think if you accept the key premise – that no more oil is available – then the future he envisions is probably pretty close to the mark. Oil provides all kinds of conveniences that we take for granted, and I doubt the average person can appreciate how different their world would be if the taps dried up. Yet that is the world that JHK has produced in this novel.
But that’s not the way I think things will play out. If you read between the lines, the book is set no more than 15 years into the future. The date is never given, but there is a mention of a woman in her 90’s who was a nurse in WWII. Assuming 20 as a minimum age, then the setting of the book is some time between now and maybe 2025 at the latest. I simply don’t believe we will lose our mechanized transport options in that time frame.
On my recent trip to India, I saw a lot of people who were using very little fuel, but were still getting around by motorized transport. We have such a tremendous amount of fat that we can cut from our fuel consumption. It may be that by 2020 we do have a lot less oil available, but oil will still be available. And some countries – Brazil for instance – are not likely to run into supply issues for decades. It is hard to envision a world in which the U.S. has no more access to oil, but Brazil is motoring happily along. Even though there isn’t much mention about the rest of the world – mainly because there is little communication with the rest of the world – I couldn’t help but imagine that in JHK’s world there were a lot of countries that would have been able to maintain their fuel supplies.
The book touched upon a lot of themes that I have thought about over the years. Long before I was involved in writing about energy, I was a student of evolutionary biology. One of the things that my studies made me appreciate is that modern medicine has allowed many people to contribute genes to the gene pool that centuries ago would have been cruelly weeded out by evolution. What that means is that most of us are carrying around genes that are only mildly deleterious in the age of modern medicine, but could quickly shorten our life spans without modern medicine. And in this book, JHK pulled modern medicine out from under the population. The result is as I would expect – vast numbers of people died out. I have speculated before that without modern medicine, more than 90% of the population would likely be dead within 10 years from conditions that today don’t trouble us too much.
Consider your own health. Have you been hospitalized for appendicitis? How many times have you required antibiotics to treat something common like strep throat? Have you required surgery? These are all things that can kill without modern medicine. So I have a great appreciation for modern medicine. When I go to a developing country like India that’s one of the first things I think about: Do the people have access to modern medicine?
Another theme that I have thought a lot about – and that JHK tackled in the book – was mining of the municipal dumps. I have often thought about the amount of metals, useful plastics, and just various odds and ends that would be of enormous benefit in a resource-depleted world. I have no doubt that regardless of how the future plays out, there will come a time that we are mining the dumps regularly.
One thing that I haven’t discussed yet is the story itself. I really didn’t expect much from the story. The real story for me was what a world without oil might look like. But the underlying story was actually pretty good. The characters are really interesting, he makes the relationships interesting, and he throws a few surprises into the mix. I have to hand it to JHK – he tells a good tale. Some of the characters (and names) seemed a bit over the top, but otherwise I found myself wanting to know what was going to happen next. So I got a bonus in that aspect.
If you are like me, and you enjoy thinking about possibilities (good or bad), then this book is definitely food for thought. If you want to remain oblivious to the threat of peak oil, or are otherwise convinced that technology will enable the status quo to remain, then you probably won’t care for it (although again the book is worth a read for the story itself).
Note: If you are curious about JHK’s views, the current issue of Business Week has an extensive interview with him:
Why Oil Prices Aren’t Going Down
I kept expecting a pull-back in prices at $90/bbl, then $100, then just watched as prices kept climbing to today’s level of $118. While I won’t be surprised if we do see a short-term correction, in the longer-term I suspect we will be going much higher. Why? Here is part of the reason:
Emerging Market Oil Use Exceeds U.S. as Prices Rise
April 21 (Bloomberg) — Traffic jams in Beijing and humming air conditioners in Dubai are replacing U.S. highways and suburbs as the driver of global oil prices.
China, India, Russia and the Middle East for the first time will consume more crude oil than the U.S., burning 20.67 million barrels a day this year, an increase of 4.4 percent, according to the International Energy Agency in Paris. U.S. demand will contract 2 percent to 20.38 million barrels daily, the IEA says.
“The U.S. recession will be a footnote as far as the oil market is concerned,” says Jeffrey Rubin, chief economist at CIBC World Markets Inc. in Toronto, who has correctly forecast higher oil prices since 2000. “Supply isn’t growing and demand is growing robustly in the developing world.”
“The predominant market view is that the emerging economies will overcompensate for any possible demand slump in OECD countries,” said Eugen Weinberg, an analyst at Commerzbank AG in Frankfurt. “I couldn’t rule out that oil may go to $150.”
I see no relief in sight. Oil producing countries are growing their consumption at a very rapid clip. With oil prices where they are, money is flowing into the economies of oil exporters. As this happens, people are more prosperous. As people are more prosperous, they use more energy.
While I have sharply disagreed with oil geologist Jeffrey Brown (aka Westexas at The Oil Drum) over his analysis of Saudia Arabia, I think he had an important insight with his Export Land Model (ELM). This model essentially says that prosperous oil-producing countries will cannibalize their own production as the money flows in, leading to falling exports. Of course you can’t extrapolate this down to zero exports, or the money stops flowing in. But rising prices can compensate for falling exports to a large degree.
About
The mission of R-Squared is to discuss critical issues for modern society: Energy and the Environment. My career has been devoted to energy issues. (See my CV for specifics). I have worked on cellulosic ethanol, butanol production, oil refining, natural gas production, and gas-to-liquids (GTL). I grew up in Oklahoma, and received my Master’s in Chemical Engineering from Texas A&M University. I am currently employed as the Engineering Director for Accsys Technologies.
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